Over twenty years, dignified relations with Russia could have been built

First Informational’s interviewee is Arbak Khachatryan, an independent human rights defender based in Moscow.

— Mr Khachatryan, Armenia became a member of the Eurasian Economic Union on 2 January. What awaits Armenia now that it is an EAEU member? Will Russia’s current situation also be transferred to Armenia?

— Do you remember that in an interview with you a year ago I said there would be a separate customs union between Armenia and Russia? The resistance from Kazakhstan and Belarus now leads precisely to that. What Armenia has entered today seems to be a separate union between Armenia and Russia. It is even laughable to call it deep economic cooperation. Naturally, Armenia will gain no economic benefit. Most people in Armenia today live with emigration on their minds. How many families they have destroyed with their policies!

Until people are punished for all that, we should expect nothing good. Now Russia is turning to Turkey, which was its enemy over Crimea, to build a gas pipeline. Russia creates monsters and then fights them. I cannot imagine what Armenians expect, what sort of economic relationship. Why do they deceive people by saying that our meat and apricots will go there and something good will happen? Is that how an economy is sustained? Is that how economic cooperation is strengthened?

— It is known that the Eurasian Economic Union’s member countries are not champions of freedom of speech. Their press is also under severe pressure. Armenia is in a more or less favourable position in that respect, as international organisations’ annual reports also indicate. Could we decline in that area as well?

— And it is very good that this freedom exists in Armenia. If even that did not exist, I cannot imagine what condition Armenia would be in. When freedom is not allowed, independence becomes utterly meaningless. How can we, while being completely dependent on one country, also introduce restrictions in this area and impose restrictions on the poor farmer as well? Add that, and that is the end. I am glad the media in Armenia are freer, but this is managed freedom, and at least the present situation must be preserved. The Armenian press is free to the extent that it exists, and there is not even any need to control it, because what it writes essentially changes nothing.

No new system is being created in Russia now to save the country. And if Russia is not saved, the whole system collapses, Armenia along with it. The building’s foundation is being destroyed, and you are asking about the roof. Today we must think, discuss and understand why Armenia has tied its entire domestic and foreign policy to one country, to one person. Should we not have looked several steps ahead and made the right choice? It is clear that in this situation they will start working towards Europe and America and perhaps even benefit from the situation.

— Well, can we at least expect something in terms of ensuring security? Can the CSTO at least now show that it is the guarantor of Armenia’s security? Armenian villages continue to be bombarded by the enemy, yet we do not even see that we have a security guarantor.

— In these circumstances Russia cannot support Armenia, and nothing should be expected. Secondly, at best it will say: return the Azerbaijani lands around Karabakh and the situation will improve… Expect nothing else. In this situation Russia will not defend Armenia. Even a year ago I said it would not do so: do not join that union for security. Russia has strategically more important issues. Back in 2008 I said that when necessary Putin would give Armenia up. Armenia’s only means of salvation is itself, its army.

We have good troops and young men who fight. The troops are the children of families, and how many families have been ruined today! Could we not have had different relations over these 20 years? Could we not have conducted better negotiations with Azerbaijan so that the situation would not be like this? Could we not have moved a step forward in those negotiations? Or is all we can do fly to the Kremlin and wait to hear what they say there?

— Could different relations with Russia have been established over those 20 years so that we would not be in such vassal-like circumstances today?

— Yes, dozens of institutions could have worked to prevent these conditions. Of course a stronger diplomatic team could have worked so that we would not have what we have today.

— In Armenia, not only the authorities but also political forces outside the government supported joining the Eurasian Economic Union. In your view, with this total agreement, does Armenia still have any hope of escaping Russia, or will it collapse along with that country?

— Russia’s collapse should not be predicted so quickly. If Russia moves in the right direction and lays a new foundation, the situation will change. It is simply that all those people who have plundered and continue to plunder will blame everything on Russia’s crisis and step aside. Those in power and those outside it are all the same; there are, of course, decent people who can fight and work properly. Those people, as you said, are chameleons: if something changes, they will be on another side within a second and begin criticising the Eurasian Economic Union. Why do these people, who now praise the Customs Union and Russia, send their children to study in Europe? If Russia’s situation gets a little worse and they see that they can no longer do anything or gain any benefit, or put their money to work through Russia, they too will turn towards Europe and America.

Our people are hardworking and suffering; that is seen and appreciated everywhere. It is simply that our leaders deceived Europe, and if something happens in Russia, they will deceive Russia too. If you dislike Europe so much, why keep your money there while praising the Customs Union? It is difficult to work with them or place hopes in them, but the Armenian people are hardworking and suffering.